Open discussion: goals

I've been working up a list of 'breeding goals'.  Here is what is come to mind as 'North Texas October Grape Project goals':

1. Suitable for growing organically (as defined by one of several groups) here in North Texas
2. Avoids or tolerates late spring frosts
3. Ripens in October when refrigeration isn't necessary for creating a decent wine.
4. Makes a delightful and uniquely North Texas wine.  A vine that allows fruit to hang until a North Texas fall frost won't ripen many other places.  That makes it a 'uniquely North Texas' grape, and the wine it produces will be uniquely North Texas.

I was tempted to add 'likes high pH soils' and 'likes salty well water', but these issues can be addressed by grafting.

The organic goal may be a bit too hardcore, but it makes clear our interest in vines that stay healthy on their own here in North Texas.

Acres of trellis

Cliff wrote this excellent reason to put what we are doing out in public on the internet: "Maybe a wealthy sponsor will get interested and set up a hundred acres of trellis for me to plant with new seeds!"

Thanks Cliff!

Here is the full quote.  It comes from a 'GrapeBreeders' list discussion on the topic 'should this list be public'?

> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:27:31 -0500
> From: cambers@sbc.edu
> To: grapebreeders
> Subject: [grapebreeders] is this list public?
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have always been under the impression that the list contents
> are public except for the last day. I think I ran across this in the
> Ibiblio documentation. I concur with Bill's comments below. I WANT
> my comments to be public because no one in the grape growing world
> will understand there are other ways of thinking about grapes beside
> vinifera if the conversations aren't public. The other beauty of
> Ibiblio in my opinion is that it is an attempt to put internet content
> and discussions posted to it "in stone" as much as is possible. This
> means every contribution you make to the list is actually a
> publication that records this instant in history. We have very sparse
> information about the history of the vine when you consider how long
> it has been cultivated. The history of the vine in America is even
> more sparse. This list is a record of how we are STILL trying to
> build an indigenous viticulture for North America - after 200-some
> years! So, if you don't want it recorded, don't put it on the list!
> Alternatively, if you have a point of view, posting your observations
> and inferences from your work gets it recorded.
>
> I often wonder when agriculture went from an open source
> community effort to a proprietary industry where information is held
> secret and reverberates on this list. I guess it was through the 20th
> century. I take my lead from the early American breeders and 20th
> century shamans of breeding like Zehnder, Dunstan and Swenson. These
> vines are for everyone and are a source of sweetness in times of pain
> and sorrow. Where do you get candy if the trucks stop running? Call
> it crazy thinking, but it is only a hiccup on Wall Street away. Vines
> like Catawba, Isabella, Herbemont and Norton were the candy before the
> supermarkets. We are breeding the candy plants that will survive
> after they close.
>
> Regards, Cliff
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> is this list public?
> Shoemaker, William H
> Mon Nov 19 09:36:23 EST 2012
>
> Perhaps I'm naive, but I'm not sure there is any great risk from our
> conversations being made public. There may be a few small ones, but
> I've been on this list for many years and I'm not aware of any serious
> consequences emerging from having these threads being made public. It
> sounds like, on the other hand, there are some on this list that found
> it because of its availability publicly. I know I was contacted by
> Julia Harding, an associate of Jancis Robinson, about some of the work
> going on in private grapebreeding in the upper Midwest. I believe they
> learned some of what they knew through public exposure to this list.
> There may be some upsides to public exposure, so long as there isn't
> any public indecency. But then, I'm used to having a public mission
> component to my work and believe society benefits enormously from such
> a mission component. Those of us who graduate to businesses based on
> work we develop on this list may need to be more careful, but I think
> that has already taken place, and becomes a personal discipline. Can't
> avoid that anyway.

Why grow an October grape?

Soon after mentioning the Texas October Grape project, I get a puzzled look and a question.  "Why do you want a grape that ripens in October?"   A friend asked this, yesterday and it is probably the 3rd or 4th time I've gotten it in as many weeks.I really need to write down a good answer.

The first thing that comes out of my mouth is, 'European grapes ripen in August here.  Can you imagine what the August heat does to the grape picker, not to mention the grapes?"

This is a personal perspective, though.  While a glass of wine is great after sweating off 10 pounds picking grapes in the afternoon summer sun, I wouldn't mind skipping future experiences.  I don't get the sense that I'm communicating the pain, though. What they want to know is 'why will an October harvest improve the wine!'

So, what matters is grape quality, and ease of getting the right kind of fermentation.  Grape quality is going to be better when the fruit ripens in 75 degree weather with 55 degree nights rather than 106 degree weather with 85 degree nights.   Additionally, unwanted fermentation in transporting bins is a lot easier to halt when the temps are moderate.  Transportation issues can be addressed with chemicals, dry ice, and/or refrigeration, but these options are expensive and problematic.

August harvests in Texas don't encourage community participation. For example,  'wine stomps' are popular harvest festivals.  There are 'wine stomps' held by wineries all over North Texas, but they don't happen in August. They happen in October, when it is cool. They strike me as faux-festivals.  The grapes come from distant places such as Lubbock, Missouri or California.

But, what I am really dreaming about is growing a vine with a special taste that both delights and says 'I'm from Texas'.  That vine can say 'I'm from Texas' because it won't ripen anywhere else.  There are very few places on earth that have the long Texas growing season and cold continental winter.  A North Texas October wine grape will require both.  Grow it somewhere else, and the fruit will never ripen.

Cinerea wine, age 1 week

John's got great news: "PV cinerea makes a slightly tannic wine with some tartness that might me corrected with cold stabilization and malolactic fermentation.  It is seemingly done fermenting and I'm waiting for gravity to clarify before I rack it off the yeast, cold stabilize etc.   For my money, already better than mustang wine.  In a few weeks I should have a bottle to show for the effort.  I should age it a bit."

2012 seed collection

I have been counting seeds this weekend.  It looks like we have about 3300 seeds here at the house.  While I'm eating Thanksgiving turkey, I'll be trying to figure out how to give them all a chance to grow.

Seed parent	Pollen parent	total seeds
06-38-1	Carnelian	180
06-90-5	Captain	50
Alphonse d'Serres	Traminette	2
Bridlegate Cinerea	op	400
Bridlegate Cinerea	champin/riparia	200
Bridlegate Cinerea	Carnelian	100
Bridlegate Cinerea	schuyler	100
Bridlegate Cinerea	villard blanc	75
E55-17 x Orange Muscat	Stover	68
E55-17 x Orange Muscat	Valvin Muscat	105
E55-17 x Orange Muscat	traminette	200
E55-17 x Orange Muscat	viogner	50
FM 875 Cinerea	Tannat	69
FM 875 Cinerea	Syrah	16
FM 875 Cinerea	Mustang	25
Lincecumi Linny	Tannat	44
Lincecumi Linny	Mourvedre	106
Merlot	schuyler	45
Doaniana Montague	French mystery vine	90
Doaniana Montague	marquette	140
Doaniana Montague	Stover	68
Doaniana Montague	Lomanto	124
Doaniana Montague	Valvin Muscat	116
Doaniana Montague	Tannat	44
Doaniana Montague	Viognier	50
Doaniana Montague	Nero d'alva	48
Doaniana Montague	Merlot	42
Doaniana Montague	Schyler	42
Doaniana Montague	dornfelder	50
Plainview Cinerea	Tannat	81
Plainview Cinerea	Mournvedre	90
Plainview Cinerea	Cab Sauv	140
Plainview Cinerea	Syrah	63
Plainview Cinerea	Mustang	11
stover	valvin muscat	20
valvin muscat	stover	24
valvin muscat	viognier	16
viognier	valvin muscat	20
viognier	schuyler	35
viognier	valvin muscat	20
z89-9-3	Merlot	18
z89-9-3	Mourvedre	34
z89-9-3	Cabernet sauvignon	50

4 lbs of Plainview big leaf cinerea

John says:
"This should be a enough for a bottle of wine.  We left one bagged cluster and those we couldn't reach...Brandon and I are going to try to make a full bottle of wine."

This will be batch #2.  Batch #1 was a small scale experiment with 1 cinerea cluster that went better than we expected. After a week of fermenting on the skins and stems, John hand pressed the mash with a bag. 

7.88 oz of grapes with stems:

4.36 oz must              55.3% yield
2.49 oz seeds/skin    31.7 %
1.00 oz stems.          13%


We were concerned with the amount of free juice that could be squeezed from the berries when we test for Brix.  I didn't think there was much we could do with the berries, but John crushed them.  He stored them in a plastic juice jug and after a week, presto, it was almost all juice:

Based on these results, 100lbs of Plainview Big Leaf Cinerea (PBLC) with stems would yield 55.3lbs of must.  At 8.34lbs per gallon (s.g. of water) this is 6.63 gallons.  Assuming 20% loss during racking, 5.3 gallons of wine or 26 bottles.  Thus, we need about 4 lbs to make a enough juice to ferment in a bottle.


.

A November harvest

Visited John to taste some wild grapes picked Saturday, November 4th.

Here is a photo of the two varieties.  On the left is 'Plainview big leaf cinerea'.  On the right is 'Plainview cordifolia'.

Here are my notes:

1. Plainview Cordifolia: Taste reminds me immediately of vegetables.  Yellow bell pepper comes to mind after putting 4 berries in my mouth at once and getting a fair sample of juice.  Ugh!  Not much acid.  John says it had more bite before it was frozen, Saturday.  Juice has a dark red color.  Brix was 28.  Large berries measured between .33 and .38 inches in diameter.

2. Plainview Big Leaf Cinerea: Taste reminded me of Bridlegate cinerea. Blackberry! Fruity!  More acid than the cordifolia.  John says is had more punch on Saturday.    Brix was 24.  Berries were .4 inches (1 cm) in diameter.  Dark red juice.

I could not taste any relationship between the two grapes despite their proximity to each other (about 20'). 

Plainview cordifolia

John Barnett writes:

This is Cordifolia just 20 feet down the fence from "Plainview".  Both are holding fruit on November 4,  2012.  Note the heart shaped leaf, smooth cane and lack of bloom.  Yes, the cordifolia is sweet and palatable. Tastes sort of like a sweet picked salad pepper.  Not bad.

The frosted look on some grapes is called bloom.  Bloom is the powdery, waxy substance that is often found on the surface of grapes. While this substance may contain the spores of wild yeast, it is not necessary composed of yeast cells. As you can see below, there isn't much bloom.  

Update on Plainview Big Leaf Cinerea

From John Barnett:

A full load of "blackberry" flavored grapes on November 4, 2012.

And, the berries are about 1 centimeter: